on Humility -

[staxxy]

There's a difference between humility and self-debasement. Humility, to me, means knowing you're good but not being above teaching what you know and giving of yourself. It bugs the hell out of me when someone is recognized for their work then turn around and say crap like, "I'm not that good," or "I really don't deserve this." That's not humility, that's insulting the persons who thought you were good enough to be recognized for your work. It's also insulting to yourself.

from lawst

It is important for everyone to realize this difference.

Comments

[wendolen.livejournal.com]

Humility also includes not being above learning more, IMO.

[eyeblend.livejournal.com]

Hear, hear!

[bittergourd.livejournal.com]

oh my... that sums up how i have lead my life and how much i need a change...

thank you for sharing this, stax

♥

[staxxy.livejournal.com]

true enough.

[staxxy.livejournal.com]

you betcha. I thought it was brilliant enough that I HAD to share it.

Easy to say for some...

[saintcynr.livejournal.com]

Many people have gone their entire lives without knowing how to take a compliment, and it's not as easy to shed the self-effacing response as some would like to think.

So, yes, it's true, but no, it's not as though the person is trying to be an ass, and there are far worse problems to have.

[deliciouspear.livejournal.com]

Amen mah sistah.

To quote Nelson Mandela:

"Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is
that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our
darkness, that most frightens us. We ask ourselves: Who am I to be
brilliant, gorgeous, talented, fabulous? Who are you not to be?
Your playing small does not serve the world. There is nothing
enlightened about shrinking, so that others won't feel insecure
around you."

[faeredelune.livejournal.com]

Duly noted. That insulting the complimenter is an interesting twist and I'd hate to do such. When complimented even if I feel modest in light of it I try not to come off as self effacing because there are occasions when some people do that they become perceived as attention pandering or some such. So in other words I try to avoid self effacing as being confused with attention whoring isn't my wish either. Dignity is a hard and important lesson.

That said I also agree with saintcynr.

Re: Easy to say for some...

[deliciouspear.livejournal.com]

Well I'm WRETCHED at excepting compliments, but I also don't tell people that I suck at shit I'm good at.

mebbe I'm just a freak.

[sirriamnis.livejournal.com]

"...that's insulting the persons who thought you were good enough to be recognized for your work."

Wow, that is like telling someone with low self-esteem that because they don't think they are attractive, they are insulting/devaluing the opinions of people who do. And about as productive.

!

[saintcynr.livejournal.com]

That's what I was getting at. :)

Re: !

[sirriamnis.livejournal.com]

Sorry, didn't read your reply.

Re: !

[saintcynr.livejournal.com]

No, I just meant I was saying something similar, but didn't make it as clear as you did.

Re: !

[sirriamnis.livejournal.com]

That's ok.

[bewtifulfreak.livejournal.com]

I think the best way to accept a compliment is to just offer a sincere "Thank you". By doing so, nothing is implied as to the veracity of the compliment one way or another, and yet it is accepted graciously and with gratitude. It's the sort of response that even those of us with low-self esteem can manage if we make a point of it; it doesn't involve completely accepting the truth of the compliment in the moment it's given, but not arguing against it does actually help allow the compliment to be absorbed. :)

[vorona.livejournal.com]

I think this varies with culture and personality. I don't believe it's one-size-fits-all. People have linguistic quirks, quirks of expression, cultural habits, superstitions or vestiges of superstitions. These deeply outweigh current love-yourself pop-psychology (which I do think can be somewhat useful for self-help) because they are much, much, much older. I don't think people mean to be insulting or unenlightened, they're just saying what comes naturally for whatever reasons.

I don't have a problem with letting people know repeatedly in different ways (it does not have to be a direct statement) that they're valued and respected. I think I have a pretty high tolerance for this, though. Maybe it gets under other people's skins more than it does mine. Huh.

[staxxy.livejournal.com]

:D exactly.

Which is why I have given that very instruction to folks in the past. :D

Re: Easy to say for some...

[staxxy.livejournal.com]

my point, in posting this, is that being self-effacing is *not* being humble.

It is one thing to say "I can do better than this" and another to say "this isn't very good", you see?

My point is not that people who have problems shedding self-effacing ways are assholes. My point is that this is *not* being humble, it is having low self-esteem.

As an example:

When someone tells me I look fabulous and I say "I do what I can" I am being humble; when I say "nah, I am all bloated and my hair is a wreck", I am having low self-esteem.

There is an ego-centricity inherent in really low self-esteem. It is the "they're all judging me and watching me and waiting for me to fuck up" sort of ego-centricity.

My point in posting this is not to say that people with low self esteem are ego-centric assholes. It is to more clearly define the terms.

and, I have to add, at no point did I say this was a character flaw. Nor is that anywhere in the quoted passage.

It is not for me to decide what traits are flaws or not. It is only for me to help others decide which traits they want to keep and which this wish to drop, and to help them on that path if they ask me to. :)

[staxxy.livejournal.com]

you should see my response to him.

and this goes directly back to what I said about being a gracious giver and getter. whether or not you agree with the compliment, you can be gracious in response. It doesn't mean you have to sleep with them, but you can say "thank you" instead of saying "who asked you?".

you have *made* this rant. They are just different words baby.

[staxxy.livejournal.com]

dignity is a crucial lesson as well. You can accept assistance gracefully and with dignity, and never be seen as weak. You can acknowledge compliments, even those you disagree with, graciously. :)

you should come back to this post and see my response to saintcynr.

[staxxy.livejournal.com]

I agree that cultures have more in them than can be encompassed by pop-psychology.

My point in posting this is to say that being self-effacing is not the same as being humble. There *is* a difference, and it is important to know what that difference *is*.

[vorona.livejournal.com]

It's also important, I believe to know that being self-effacing is not the same as being self-hating. I think too often the difference is missed entirely, and this can cause confusion and damage. Having the habit of deflecting compliments, or being uneasy with a lot of focus on one's personal appearance or abilities, does not mean that someone hates himself or doesn't believe in himself. In some cases it could be part of general unease and self-criticism, but I really don't believe that this is what's going on most of the time. "Thank you," of course, is always an appropriate reply to a civil (not invasively overfamiliar) compliment.

[faeredelune.livejournal.com]

No worries. Actually I got quite completely the message of the entry as well as your clarifications although I might have expressed myself as slightly off the mark.

~ That you were clarifying the difference between humble and low self esteem in a compassionate attempt to be supportive. That dignity is also nicely fit with mannered in this case as it can impact on other people's feelings as well. Humble and dignity can also aid in self healing of low self esteem when combined. At least that's what I took from it all.

I am often interested in the improvement of people's manners and so the part about putting down the complimenter simply struck me as an effect I had been unaware of. Although I think I have an observation of people's behavior that compliments it. It has to do with what motivates others to participate in things that contribute to our contentedness. Such as not always criticizing our partner and forgeting to appreciate them - for why should they want to continue if they are worn down and torn apart rather than acknowledged for their positive traits and actions. Berading someone for the negative actions and even worse on the personal level alone only serves to make them unwilling to contribute to our contentment for by then we are certainly lot giving equally to them. So I applied that to compliments and have sort of allowed such things to show when young people take compliments badly. It may not help their self esteem directly when they do but I do help them see it, by saying things like "your statement indicates that you don't regard me as having much credibility, or perhaps you think I am lying or am unable to recognize things of my own accord - if so please tell me know for I'd hate my compliments to fall on deaf ears"

It sounds harsh, but it's delivered kindly and they do actually get the point that I only choose to compliment them with reason to do so which is different from motive.

What is ironic is that I was aware when others did this, but was not aware that my words may be an accidental slap at complimenters sometimes. I am awfully fortunate complimenters have not given up on me based on that. *wink*

[faeredelune.livejournal.com]

This topic is also one I'd really like to share in my journal as well ... would you mind if I do?

[staxxy.livejournal.com]

TOO TRUE!!!

thanks!!